Seaside Foraging and Eurasian Cuisine

[Music playing] 

Jimmy
To foodies in Singapore, Damian de Silva is a man who needs no introduction. A judge on MasterChef Singapore, the proud Eurasian is a strong believer in the need to preserve Singapore’s heritage cuisine. He is also the founder and chef of Rempapa restaurant, which very naturally specialises in heritage cuisine. Damian was a guest in an episode of the National Library’s cooking show From Book to Cook. And in that episode, he made a dish that does not feature on his restaurant’s menu: sea snail and papaya curry. 

I’m Jimmy Yap, and in this podcast I’ll be speaking to Damian about this dish and about growing up next to the sea and the importance of preserving heritage recipes. Welcome to BiblioAsia+, Damian. How have you been? 

Damian
I’ve been well. Can always be better, Jimmy. 

Jimmy
We can always be better. But, you know, you’re famous and you just came back recently from France. 

Damian
I’d rather be rich and famous. 

Jimmy
Okay, let me ask you. Sea snail and papaya curry. How is that dish sort of representative of Eurasian cuisine, even though it is a dish I guess not many people have heard of? 

Damian
The reason why I wanted to cook the sea snail and papaya curry is to make people aware that there are dishes out there that we used to eat a long time ago that people have forgotten about. And what was important for me more than anything else was the seafood. Right? So, before meat came into an everyday dish, seafood was actually what we ate most of the time. Since when the Eurasians were in Melaka. Since when? The Portuguese, the Dutch, you know, invaded it. It’s always been seafood. Why seafood? Because it was very convenient. The sea was very close by. People would just go at different times of the day because of the tidal, you know, low tide, high tide. And they would go and forage. 

And I thought it would be nice to do a sea snail curry because this is something that we used to forage when we were younger and used to bring it back, you know, wash it and cook it. Right. But we’ve all forgotten about this dish because we’ve become, I would say, too Westernised. Yeah, not in a bad way, but we’ve forgotten about what we used to eat before. We look at sea snails now, the first thing that comes to mind is: can you really eat that? 

This is a dish that not just the Eurasians eat, the Malays eat it as well. And some Peranakans as well, you know, do eat it. You know, being a chef is one thing. Executing dishes is another, right? But preserving heritage, to me, that’s the most important thing. And if your podcast goes out to, let’s say, 5,000 people, and if 5 percent of them try the dish, that’s 5 percent of people that are going to bring this dish forward, you know, to their grandchildren or to their children. 

So, for me, I’ve done a little bit of my part in preserving heritage cuisine. 

Jimmy
I’m very excited, I actually – sea snails are not what I would think often evolved to make dinner, but watching you record that episode, the possibility has entered my mind. 

Damian
Yeah, yeah you don’t have to eat the sea snail, the papaya is really good as well. Yeah. Really. There are different gastropods that you can actually forage at different areas in the sea. So, low tide the sandy areas you get remis, which is a shellfish, it’s not a gastropod. It’s very different. 

Jimmy
Right. 

Damian
Because of the reclamation of land in Singapore, all the mangroves are not there anymore. You know Punggol before, right? There was a very, very long mangrove, it’s gone, it’s not there anymore. So, I think you know, what we used to experience as a child in the 60s and what they are experiencing today is very different. Very, very different. 

We used to actually go and look for food. People now go and look for restaurants. It’s the same thing. It fills your stomach. But going to look for food is more exciting. It’s such an adventure. It’s a learning process as well, right? If I had not done that, I wouldn’t be sitting here today talking to you and telling you. It has made me aware of my surroundings. It has made me aware of, you know, the different tidal flats that were available. 

Jimmy
So, you used to live, you grew up in Siglap, but back then when you grew up, yeah, not that long ago because obviously you’re very young… 

Damian
I was older then, I’m younger now. 

Jimmy
… the sea was very close by? 

Damian
If you go to Marine Parade where the road is, so the road that is on the other side of the flats right beside the sea and that’s it. So, whatever is after that, right, it’s all, reclaimed. 

Jimmy
How often did you eat this dish when you were growing up? Like once a week? 

Damian
Once a month. Yeah. I mean there’s so much other seafood, right? You know why would you want to eat sea snails all the time? You’re exposed to so many different types of seafood. There were crabs. There were shells, there were fish, there were different types of fish. 

Yes, we went to the markets, but we also went to the sea a lot. You know, it could be just a short walk. A short walk, meaning a two-hour walk. Right. So, you reach, you know, the beach front in about 20 minutes, and then it’s low tide. And then you go and you start foraging. 

And before you know it, you know, mum or your aunt or granddad is shouting, “Time to go back!” Right? And you’ve collected buckets of different types of shellfish. You know, you bring it back, you soak it for maybe half an hour for it to release its sand, and then and then you cook it and that’s a meal. 

Jimmy
Wow, I did not grow up doing that. 

Damian
Yeah. 

Jimmy
I mean at most I was like at the wet market. But this is such a different experience. I mean, foraging, right? 

Damian
It is. It’s not just seafood, you know, Jimmy, there’s a lot of herbs as well, right? When I started my second restaurant, Soul Kitchen, people used to come to the restaurant quite a bit and ask me, “You don’t have any green leafy vegetables?” 

And I say, I don’t eat green, leafy vegetables. The only green leafy vegetable I ate was kangkong. And sometimes we actually went to forage [for] our kangkong, right? We ate a lot of different herbs, and in some manner, even the moringa plant, right? We used to cook it and make it into a lemak. It was good for our health, right? When I was a teenager, I became a little bit more Westernised, right? I started wearing jeans. I started thinking of fried chicken. I started thinking of pasta. And then because it’s new, right? And then you slowly sway there because you want to experience something new. Well, human beings, we [are] all like that, right? It’s not that you’ve forgotten about the past, the past is there. 

And occasionally your granddad, your mum, would bring you back to that past and you would eat it with a lot of, you know, a lot of memory, a lot of gusto, because it’s tasty food, it’s good food, right? But you also went to the direction where you eat your Western food. 

Jimmy
Coming back to the dish. Is this dish, you know, unique [to] the Eurasian community? 

Damian
No, the Malays eat it as well. 

Jimmy
Together with papaya curry? 

Damian
You know, the Malays don’t cook it with papaya, they do a lemak. The Peranakans do it with papaya. Yeah, the Peranakans do quite a few things with papaya, but they do a papaya and salt fish curry as well. And a lot of people don’t realise that we used to live together as a community. 

We were all living together, a stone’s throw away from each other and we shared our food. That’s what we did. We shared our food, right? And that’s what’s wonderful about being a community. You know, you get to taste different flavors. You get to experience different festivals, right? You don’t see that anymore, right? You only see it when you go to your friend’s house or your sibling who has married a different ethnicity. 

Jimmy
A different culture? 

Damian
A different culture. Right. And I think it’s not as engaging as it was in the past. So, you know, this dish was probably Malay and adapted by the Eurasians [who] made it into a Eurasian way of cooking this dish, but, you know, give credit where credit is due. I think, you know, the Malays, actually more than any other ethnic race, were the ones that actually started a lot of dishes in Singapore because they’ve been here for like 500 over years or more. 

Right. And they were fishermen before anything else. And, you know, the seafood that was available then was much more, you know, than what is available today because of overfishing, right? Yeah. I mean, you know, we used to go a lot to the beach and we used to see belangkas. 

Jimmy
What is belangkas? 

Damian
Belangkas is horseshoe crab. A lot of people don’t know this, right? But horseshoe crabs are the first to actually die or disappear when the water is polluted. They only can live in very clean, unpolluted waters. So, you don’t see it now. So, what does that tell you? The water’s not very good. In the past, they were plentiful. I used to go and we used to catch – not very much meat, but we were more after the roe. The eggs. They were amazing. Amazing. 

Jimmy
How would you cook them? 

Damian
Just like an assam, with tamarind or even with lemak. It really depends how you wanted to cook it. And it was superb, really superb. Even, you know, catfish – ikan sembilang. 

Jimmy
Where would these fish be found? 

Damian
In Singapore. You could catch [them]. 

Jimmy
In the rivers? 

Damian
No, no, no. In the sea. You got to be very careful because there are stingray, there are also catfish, which actually hide in the sand. And if you step on them, they’ll sting you, it’s very painful. I mean, as a boy because we went foraging, I used to get stung quite a bit. You know, it’s very painful, but it’s more the fun, you forget about the sting once you think about the fun. Right. You know, when we were kids, that’s how it [was]. You know, we used to go into the orchards, right? Fruit orchards, which were just behind my house. 

We didn’t want to waste them because there was too much of it. Right. Some of them are falling to the ground. So we said, “Look, let’s go and take a few.” But we didn’t go there to pluck the fruits. We went there to be chased by dogs because that’s more fun. You see when you’re climbing up the tree, you don’t think about the dogs and then you hear the dogs barking, right? And they were about maybe about 30 m away, right? Then you scramble down and “Come, let’s go!” Everybody runs, and the dog [is] like 5 m away from you. But your adrenaline, it’s, you know, it just builds up. Right. And it’s so much fun. 

Jimmy
You and I have had different childhoods. It sounds much more fun than mine, I have to say. You’ve been a cook and a chef for a long time, you know, who have been the greatest influences in your philosophy? 

Damian
I think, number one, it’s definitely my Granddad, because he was there, you know, with us. 

Jimmy
You grew up with Granddad in the same house? 

Damian
Oh yeah, till I was about 15. Yeah. And then he was too old. He had to be sent to an old age home, a bit sad. But then we couldn’t, Mum couldn’t look after him. But I would say, yeah, Granddad you know, used to cook in the kitchen, three times a week and usually during special occasions he would be the one that actually ran the kitchen. 

Jimmy
Oh. Not your grandmother, for example? 

Damian
No, my grandmother never lived with us. Yeah, but Granddad did. Yeah. You know, if it wasn’t for him, I wouldn’t be where I am today. 

Jimmy
What did your granddad use to do? I mean, for a living.  

Damian
He worked in the Supreme Court, he had a space at the very top of the Supreme Court. They were quarters, you know, in the Supreme Court, before on the top. And it overlooked the Padang. So, every time when there was a cricket match, I used to be able to watch it for free. 

And I’ve seen Wesley Hall bowl, you know. Wesley Hall was a great West Indian cricketer. So, it was a lot of fun for us. He lived there until I turned seven and then he had to… he was too old already. Then he came to stay with us. Yeah, but, but I remember he used to throw parties and the judges used to come. He used to cook for them. 

Jimmy
Wow. Yeah. Okay. 

Damian
Yeah, he was. He was really an excellent cook. Really an excellent cook. You know, a cook and a chef are very different. A lot of chefs are going to be very unhappy with me. But this is true. The cooks tend to have a little bit more soul. 

Jimmy
What does that mean? 

Damian
You know, soul is something that’s derived from deep within you, right? And everybody has got it. It’s just that a lot of people don’t know how to bring the soul out, right? Sometimes it happens when something drastic happens to you. Let’s say you were caught in a war, right? And you’re in a village and the whole village is starving. They haven’t eaten for, you know, who knows how long. And you go out. Your family’s starving as well, right? And you go out and you manage to get a handful of rice. 

You start boiling it. And when it’s ready, there’s hardly anything left. It’s turned all into not even porridge, right? Just starch water, right? And then you call the whole village and you say, “Look, it’s enough for a cup for everybody. And that’s what is going to last us, until the next time when I get my hands on [more].” That, I think, is what soul is all about. It’s about, you know, doing things that [go] beyond the understanding of your own self. 

I’m not saying a chef doesn’t have soul. They do, but it’s a different kind of soul, right? When you are in a Michelin star restaurant, where’s that soul? The soul is, you know, the only, the only difference I would say is how things are executed. 

A Michelin starred restaurant and an operating theater. The only difference is if anything goes wrong [in the restaurant], no one dies. That’s right. But as a cook, that soul is very different because that soul is drawn upon what you experienced as a child. Whether from your grandparents or with your mother, whether from your neighbors. Right. So, you take it all in, right? And when you do something, that memory comes back to you. What you feel inside, when you put it into a dish, that’s a dish with soul. 

And that’s the difference. 

Jimmy
I think I see what you mean. What do you call people who have to look at recipes and then like, do it very badly and then burn the food? That’s me, actually. 

Damian
We all are on this earth for a different purpose. All of us are, right. The important thing when you grow up, or if you get the chance to grow up, is to tell yourself that this is what I’m good at. That’s it. There’s nothing wrong with not knowing, you know, being really highly educated. There’s nothing wrong. I only know how to cook rice. There’s nothing wrong. I know how to fry an egg really well and there’s nothing wrong, you know? I’m a dog whisperer and that’s what I love the most. I love my animals, right? You must find your purpose in life. That’s the important thing, right? And once you find your purpose in life, you must believe in it. If you don’t believe in it, no one can save you. So, find your purpose in life and then go forth. And you know, it’s not about working hard. I think it’s about doing what has been called for you to do. It’s difficult. Yeah. 

Jimmy
Finding your calling? 

Damian
Finding your calling. It’s difficult. It’s not easy, you know, because a lot of times right where you come when you go against walls, right? So, you have to break through. Break through, until eventually, right? It’s almost instinct. You don’t even think about it. You just do it, and it becomes natural to you. 

Jimmy
When did you find out that cooking was your calling? 

Damian
Wah! I think maybe 10, 12 years into cooking. So maybe when I was like 50. Wow. I didn’t start young, yah? I started cooking when I was – professionally – when I was 38, 39. 

Jimmy
I did not know that. 

Damian
Prior to that I didn’t know. You think: What, I want to slog like this? Maybe when I was a young boy, that’s what I did. Right. But then I stopped because there are other things that [are] more important to a teenager than cooking. But no, I started at 39 and about 50, you know, I think I realised it. 

There were many ups and downs, but when I turned 50, I told myself, “Look, this is what God wants you to do, so you do it well, Damian”, you know. You go out there, there are going to be people that are not going to be happy with what you do, there are going to be people that don’t understand that you can’t do this by yourself because you need a team. 

And sometimes, because the team is cooking, they are not you, right? It’s different. But you know, what you can do? You know, it is important to educate people. And you do it, you know?

Don’t think about the negative things, there’s always going to be negative things out there. Just do, because you believe in yourself and you believe what you’re doing is good – for the population of Singapore, because you’re preserving something that nobody wants to do. 

And someone has to do it. Someone has to, right? People have forgotten about a lot of things – about dishes from 200 or 300 years ago. Not just the dishes, but how it came about, right? Why is it important to continue to do this? Because there’s going to be one day when people say, you know, this sea snail curry, how to cook it? And somebody somehow has got this recipe right from, you know, National Library [and National] Archives. 

Jimmy
Or the BiblioAsia website. 

Damian
Exactly. There’s so much about Singapore that you can go, you know, especially the coastal areas. Walk to the mudflats and wait for the low tide. Just go walk and see what you can find, right? And you can forage and you find something, you know, get excited even if it’s one gastropod, it doesn’t matter. 

That’s why I do what I do, Jimmy. 

Jimmy
You know, you set up a restaurant, Rempapa. It specialises in heritage cuisine. Why is heritage cuisine important? 

Damian
It’s who we are. It’s what comprises the different ethnicities that, you know, that embrace Singapore: Chinese, Malay, Indian, Peranakan and Eurasian. I mean, Eurasian wasn’t there, you know, maybe up to the ’80s, because in the ’70s, wea not known as Eurasians. We’re known as “others”. And we only recently, in our identity card, had Eurasian there. You know, although we [are] a very small community, the Eurasians, but during the Second World War you know a lot of Eurasians died as well, because we all fought for the British. 

I heard stories from Grandad, from my mother and from my dad, right? And they used to tell me how close we were after the war. 

Yeah. And I think my friendships when I was growing up wasn’t with just one ethnicity. I had Chinese friends, I had Malay friends, I had Indian friends, I had Eurasian friends and I had Peranakan friends. I didn’t know they were Peranakan then. I only knew them as Chinese, but they were Peranakan, right. And they always called me… I can’t say it on air, but they always gave me rude names. But it’s okay I accepted it because that's what I was, you know, I had so many different ethnicities in me, I didn’t know what the hell I was. Right. But yeah, you know, we just accepted each other. That was my childhood, you know, I embraced it. 

So, every different ethnic New Year, I used to go to the different homes and when I went to Malay friends’ [homes], I would eat with my fingers. When I went to my Indian friends’ homes, I would eat putu mayam with curry. Occasionally I ate it with brown sugar. I wanted to understand their culture, right? To the extent, right, that during seventh month right, I would actually be involved sometimes in the festivities. 

Jimmy
Even right now we don’t see that many Eurasian restaurants in Singapore. How would you describe or define Eurasian cuisine? How would you distinguish it from Malay or Peranakan cuisine? 

Damian
I think there are many facets of Eurasian cuisine, right? And it depends how far back you go, right? If you look at Eurasian, I think what you need to establish is what is the ethnicity, what is his background. So, for me, I’m a De Silva, so definitely Portuguese is there. There’s also British, there’s also Dutch Eurasian. They’re different because of the different cultures that they have embraced. 

The Portuguese kind of like travelled, you know, from Nagasaki all the way to the African coast, right. So, imagine all the different herbs, spices that came to this part of the world. And before the Portuguese, of course, as I mentioned to you, it was the Malay. 

So, I think Eurasian cuisine was an acceptance of what was there before. So, it was the Malays, Indians, they were also here, I think, even before the Chinese. Yeah. And then the Portuguese and then the Dutch. So, it is actually a hodgepodge of all these different cultures, you know, it’s what made sense, what tasted good, what spices that they could use. 

You look at the Eurasian curry, right? And when I say curry, that’s not a very good description. But you look at a Eurasian vindaloo, or curry seku. Curry seku is mutton curry, right? They do an exceptional [curry] that would be at the same level in a really good Indian restaurant, if not better. 

So that tells you that they’ve embraced that culture, that side of that culture, which is Indian. Chinese, they have as well. There’s a dish that the Europeans execute. That’s called chuan chuan. I mean, you just listen to the name, you know, it’s definitely Chinese, right? And it’s Chinese because it’s a Teochew dish. And they have also accepted it as part of their culture and how long it’s been around, who knows? Who knows? I mean, it’s been there long enough. And I always tell people, you know, if it’s a sea, if it’s a food that’s derived from the sea, you can rest assured that it’s been there for quite a long time because that was the predominant protein that was eaten 400 or 500 years ago. 

Jimmy
You’re the judge on MasterChef Singapore. You run this very famous restaurant Rempapa and you’re the first person to win a prestigious artisanal and authenticity award from La Liste. So, what is left for Damian De Silva? 

Damian
Make money. Because if Damian doesn’t make money, the restaurant cannot continue. You know, there are people out there that don’t understand how much is required to run a restaurant. It’s a lot of money, trust me. You know, I don’t pay my staff a salary that they cannot live on, because I know it’s really expensive to live in Singapore. 

I think we look after our staff very well. Don’t have to tell anybody that rental is really, really expensive and the cost of food in Singapore is not cheap. You know, the biggest insult that I’ve ever heard – for me – was someone telling me that local food is very cheap because the ingredients, you know, you don’t have to spend a lot of money on it. And I’m telling myself, where did this guy go to the market? You know, is there a market in Singapore where there’s leftovers, they throw away and then they sell it? 

I have been taught from young how to buy fish, how to buy seafood, how to buy meat, how to buy chicken, right? I can tell you the prawn has been left on ice for too long because there’s a burn in it. I can tell you how long [since] that fish has been caught. Maybe two days, by looking at the fish. I don’t have to …people who lift the gills. They don’t know how to see fresh fish because it doesn’t work. I always buy the best quality. Taking into consideration how much I charge, that’s very important. 

We have to be fair, right? You cannot buy the best quality and then you charge too low. Then how are you going to make money? Then, you know, then you might as well not do business, right? You know, running a restaurant is not easy. It’s really difficult. The important thing is that when the food goes out there, you have to tell yourself that that’s the standard of food that I want to eat, I want to eat as Damian de Silva. 

So whatever food that’s there, I would taste it. If I want to move forward, if I want to make sure Rempapa lasts another 10, 20, 30 years down the road, even when I’m not around, I have to instill a sense of pride, a sense of dedication, a sense of love in the team that I have, to ensure that this is going to continue for another 30, 40 years. 

Jimmy
One way to preserve that legacy that you have, Damian, is to unlock all that knowledge and put it in a book. Is that something that you’ve ever considered doing? 

Damian
Jimmy, you know, people have been asking me for the last 30 years, you know, why don’t you write a book? I don’t think it’s about writing the book, I think it is about making sure that when the book is written, right, people would use it. It’s pointless writing a book and it sits on the shelves, or it sits on a coffee table and it’s there for who knows how long. 

I like to see a cookbook with pages that are bent. Stained. I love to see cookbooks like that because it tells me that this person has used that cookbook. And I think for me, that’s the kind of cookbook that I want to write. And the reason I have not written it yet is because to try and put a recipe into the book and to ensure that out of 10 people that execute it, at least eight of them execute the same recipe with almost maybe 90 percent of the flavour. That, to me, is the most difficult thing, because otherwise it’s just another cookbook. 

Jimmy
Damian, you know, it’s been really great talking to you. I just want to turn, you know, this part of this podcast to really just to talk about possibly – depending on how you take it – lighter topics. So maybe I can ask you, you know, what is the hardest thing about being a chef? 

If someone wanted to be a chef and said, “Mr. De Silva? I’ve eaten at a restaurant. I really want to be a chef, too.” What would you say to him? 

Damian
I think the hardest thing of being a chef, is the mad part. I think if you’re not mad enough, you don’t waste your time being a chef. 

Jimmy
What element of insanity is required? 

Damian
Okay, so mad is working to a point, right, where you are so tired that whatever you do doesn’t make sense anymore. Right? And you tell yourself you need to sleep, and you go and sleep for two hours, and you wake up and you continue doing what you need to do and you continue this for maybe, I don’t know, you know, the next two to three years. 

Jimmy
That’s part of the whole learning curve? 

Damian
How hard is working hard as a chef, you never know, right? To some people, working hard as a chef is 10 hours a day. That’s it. And five days a week, some even four days a week. I’m not saying that’s wrong. I’m not saying that. But I think that you have to go through that because that is a learning curve to me that’s so important. 

And every job has got a learning curve whether you’re a lawyer, you’re a financial adviser, right? You’re an artist. Look, artists go through years and years of failure before they can become… some of them don’t even become famous. They only become famous after they die, right? But that learning curve, that madness that they have to go through, I think that’s very important. And before you do anything, you have to ask yourself that, “Have I got it? Can I go through?” You don’t have to, right. 

Jimmy
You’ve plenty of options. 

I think that, you know, anybody listening would be like, “Okay, why am I doing this now in my life?” And I hope that they will, you know, think about what they’re doing in their lives, because it’s not just about being a chef, right? 

Damian
No. Anything. Anything? Yeah, anything. Look, you could be a dishwasher and you could be a damn good dishwasher. You’re on time every day. You go back on time, you clean the plates, super clean, right? You do things that are not required for you to do when you have nothing to do because it’s break time. You go and look at the chefs and say, “Can I help you?” And the chef is like, “Hygiene course.” Yes. And then you like I need to go. Okay. And then you come back. “Chef, I got hygiene course. Can I help?” You know, that is what is needed. 

Jimmy
Passion. 

Damian
Passion is not enough. Passion. That madness to want to succeed beyond passion. Yes, beyond passion. Passion is not enough. Passion eventually will tire you. Madness will always be there in your head. And that’s where you differ from the other person. 

Jimmy
I can definitely see that. And you know, it’s clearly – I don’t want to say you are mad, but I see a little madness in you. 

Damian
I am a little bit lah. 

Jimmy
I don’t know if it’s an insult, but what is the one thing that you would rather buy than cook on your own. 

Damian
Rather buy than cook on my own? 

Jimmy
Maybe because it’s too much work or maybe because it’s… 

Damian
If it’s too much work, then don’t do it lah. Okay, I would eat anything. Honestly, a lot of people don’t realise that chefs are not fussy. 

Jimmy
They’re not? 

Damian
They’re not. You see, hunger is not that important to me, if you can understand that, because I can always go home and cook something up very quickly. It could be just scrambled eggs with some…The one thing that I always have in my fridge is cheese. Don’t ask me why. I know I’m a heritage chef, but I love my cheese. 

Jimmy
What kind of cheese do you have in your fridge? 

Damian
I have at least four or five cheeses, different types of cheeses, mainly goat, sheep. But you know, I can have cheese and crackers. Without anything in my head, I would just go in and order something because I don’t have to do the work at home. Yeah, but I would definitely on many occasions wake up in the morning and tell myself I want to eat this, and then go to the market, buy the things, bring it to work, and then after I finish work, bring it back home and the next day, prepare it. 

Jimmy
Damian, listening to you, I realise I will never even make you a peanut butter sandwich because you know, you’d just throw it back in my face. 

Damian
I won’t lah. If you use the right bread, because that’s the most important thing in the peanut butter sandwich – the right bread. And of course, the peanut butter. 

Jimmy
Complete the sentence… Food is… 

Damian
Food is life. 

Jimmy
What does that mean? 

Damian
If you know food, you know enough. You’re so educated in terms of ingredients. And that is something in itself, it’s an education. And it gives you so much more life, to be able to understand all these different ingredients, where it comes from, you know, how it’s grown, how it is extracted, how it’s harvested. Right. And it’s that’s the individual, to want to know this. Some people just want to eat. Some people want to be educated. 

For me, I’m very fortunate. I ate, and my grandfather always told me what I was eating. He always told me where it came from. So, I was very fortunate. And, you know, I grew up that way – very inquisitive about ingredients, very inquisitive about, you know, how it came about, how this dish, you know, like rendang. As an example, right? Yes, we know it’s minang kabow, but how long has rendang been around? And is there only one type of rendang? Before beef, what rendang was there? The spices that were in rendang. Are they Malay? Are they Indian, they're definitely Indian, right? Where did the Indian come from? Is it the Majapahit empire? Is it the Chola empire? You know, these are things that not many people want to know. But for me it is,  because it tells you, it educates you about the dish. Right. About, you know, is there more than just one rendang? There is. There’s probably about, I don’t know, 15, 20 different types of rendang. 

Jimmy
Wow. Okay, I’m hungry already. Damian, thank you very much for joining us on BiblioAsia+. 

To watch Damian make sea snail and papaya curry – it’s much, much more delicious than what it sounds, I have to say – and to get the recipe for this delicious dish, please check out the BiblioAsia website at BiblioAsia.nlb.gov.sg 

Once again, thank you very much for coming on the podcast. 

Damian
Thank you for having me, Jimmy. 

Jimmy
If you’ve enjoyed this episode, subscribe to the podcast and the BiblioAsia newsletter. Thank you for joining me on BiblioAsia+.

Melissa De Silva, "Meeting with the Sea," BiblioAsia 13 no. 1 (April–June 2017).

João Oliveira, "Portugal's Linguistic Legacy in Southeast Asia," BiblioAsia 19, no. 1 (April–June 2023).

Quentin Pereira, Eurasian Heritage Cooking (Singapore: Marshall Cavendish Cuisine, 2012). (From National Library Singapore, call no. RSEA)

This episode of BiblioAsia Podcast was hosted by Jimmy Yap and produced by Soh Gek Han. Sound engineering was done by One Dash. The background music "Di Tanjong Katong" was composed by Ahmad Patek and performed by Chords Haven. Special thanks to Damian for coming on the show.

The BiblioAsia Podcast by the National Library Singapore tells stories about Singapore history.